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Forum moderator: StrangerComeKnocking 
Forum » Language Development » Lexical Discussion » If-Then
If-Then
StrangerComeKnockingDate: Sunday, 13 Jan 2013, 10:08 PM | Message # 1
Rihays, Master of Many Names
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We'd like your input on an if-then construction. First, however, we need words. What are they? Are they wibbly-wobbly at all? How does it work? Any and all contributions are helpful!


"Everybody knows that everybody dies." -River Song
 
StrangerComeKnockingDate: Wednesday, 23 Jan 2013, 7:05 PM | Message # 2
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Quote (Rhiannon)
Verb/verb agreement:
"If I were in charge, I would go and complain to anyone I liked."
"When we go, we will run all the way to the top of the hill."
"We can't leave, so we'll stay and read instead."
Largely, in English, verbs do not have to agree in tense for the sentence to still make sense. In the first sentence, all the verbs agree, being in subjunctive and conditional. In the second and last, we have present tense and future tenses.

In other languages, the verbs all have to be in the same tenses (or types of tenses) to make sense. This seems like it would be especially hard in Gallifreyan, given the wibbly-wobbly nature of our verbs, but do we want constructions that require matching moods? (Subjunctive, conditional, etc)

Quote (Rihays)

I think something just went over my head. Can you explain this in English, please?

Quote (Rhiannon)

We can't force all the verbs to agree on tense when the verb might be in different personal and universal tenses. However, certain constructions (if) can require certain verb tenses.

Quote (Rihays)

So basically, we just have to get really creative with our afxs?

“have verbed” (Present Perfective)
Personal: -al
Universal: -ɪɬ

Quote (Rhiannon)

No not at all.

When we use If in English, we use a Past Tense verb in our Dclause and a Conditional verb (would) in our Iclause. In Gallifreyan, we have If constructions. What are the rules for which types of verbs do we want to use, and are there any other constructions that would require similar rules?

Quote (Rihays)

"If we're going to the beach, we'll need sunscreen."

What if we did a future imp. for If, since it's speculation, and future perf. for Then since it would be a direct result of the If? Know what I mean?


And thus, we open it up to your input, loyal followers. Any input is welcome input.



"Everybody knows that everybody dies." -River Song
 
LicoricePleaseDate: Friday, 25 Jan 2013, 1:30 AM | Message # 3
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Do you want the F-tenses in our Dclauses or our Iclauses?

 
StrangerComeKnockingDate: Friday, 25 Jan 2013, 10:02 AM | Message # 4
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Quote (LicoricePlease)
Do you want the F-tenses in our Dclauses or our Iclauses?

...Both...?



"Everybody knows that everybody dies." -River Song
 
LicoricePleaseDate: Sunday, 27 Jan 2013, 3:28 AM | Message # 5
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Quote (StrangerComeKnocking)
...Both...?
How do we express speculation on something that might have happened, but didn't?


 
StrangerComeKnockingDate: Sunday, 27 Jan 2013, 12:48 PM | Message # 6
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Quote (LicoricePlease)
How do we express speculation on something that might have happened, but didn't?

How do you mean?



If we create another paradox, -> regardless if it is created/create/will create, use Future Imp. (pers. or univ.) because it is something that is being proposed but hasn't been done yet and thus isn't finished

it will rip New York apart. -> and this would be Future Perf. because this would be the result.



If I crossed my own time stream, -> same

it could generate enough energy to power the machine! -> same



If we had gone back in time, -> this seems like it might be past perf. because it's a "done" action

could you really have stopped him? -> this seems like past impf. since it's still speculation



"Everybody knows that everybody dies." -River Song
 
LicoricePleaseDate: Tuesday, 29 Jan 2013, 10:41 PM | Message # 7
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Quote (StrangerComeKnocking)
If we had gone back in time, -> this seems like it might be past perf. because it's a "done" action could you really have stopped him? -> this seems like past impf. since it's still speculation
Alright, so we need a Perf Tense followed by an Impf Tense for all constructions; present-tense constructions not allowed. Yes?


 
StrangerComeKnockingDate: Wednesday, 30 Jan 2013, 10:49 AM | Message # 8
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Quote (LicoricePlease)
Alright, so we need a Perf Tense followed by an Impf Tense for all constructions; present-tense constructions not allowed. Yes?

Are there any instances where present could be used, even wibbly-wobbly?



"Everybody knows that everybody dies." -River Song
 
LicoricePleaseDate: Saturday, 02 Feb 2013, 12:20 PM | Message # 9
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Quote (StrangerComeKnocking)
Are there any instances where present could be used, even wibbly-wobbly?
We do it in English, and it's possible for UniTime, but I prefer the idea of future for PerTime.


 
StrangerComeKnockingDate: Wednesday, 06 Feb 2013, 9:51 AM | Message # 10
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Quote (LicoricePlease)
We do it in English, and it's possible for UniTime, but I prefer the idea of future for PerTime.

Examples?



"Everybody knows that everybody dies." -River Song
 
LicoricePleaseDate: Thursday, 07 Mar 2013, 8:16 PM | Message # 11
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"If I go, I am riding with you." Except that's present tense standing in for actual future tense. We use present tense when we mean future tense it makes no sense. But for UniTime, we could do it in Gallifreyan and be literal instead of a weird grammar construction.

 
StrangerComeKnockingDate: Friday, 08 Mar 2013, 8:58 AM | Message # 12
Rihays, Master of Many Names
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So UniTime may use any tense (because wibbly-wobbly-ness may also use past tense for whatever reason) and PersTime only uses future tense? Or is it the other way around?


"Everybody knows that everybody dies." -River Song
 
LicoricePleaseDate: Monday, 11 Mar 2013, 3:35 PM | Message # 13
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You have it exactly right. UniTime can be any tense, which makes sense for just about any verb construction, regardless of the limitations on PersTime.

 
StrangerComeKnockingDate: Monday, 11 Mar 2013, 3:49 PM | Message # 14
Rihays, Master of Many Names
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Neat. So, exactly, what words do we have for if-then? And examples, we need examples for each in all wibbly-wobbly glory. neutral


"Everybody knows that everybody dies." -River Song
 
LicoricePleaseDate: Monday, 11 Mar 2013, 11:04 PM | Message # 15
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jos - if

t̪əm - then

Questions - is "then" optional like it is in English, or required? If we use "then", is the "if" implied?


 
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