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Forum moderator: StrangerComeKnocking 
Forum » Language Development » Lexical Discussion » Whether-Or
Whether-Or
StrangerComeKnockingDate: Sunday, 13 Jan 2013, 10:09 PM | Message # 1
Rihays, Master of Many Names
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Whether you help us or not, we need this construction and we are going to get it. We need words and how wibbly-wobbly this might get. Any and all input would be helpful!


"Everybody knows that everybody dies." -River Song
 
StrangerComeKnockingDate: Monday, 25 Feb 2013, 3:21 PM | Message # 2
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Ʃfalɛṱ - whether
fɛn - or
fofɛn - or not

Rules:

1. If both subject and object are pronouns, verb takes Ev affixes (even if an Rv verb).

Ʃfalɛṱ tʃuʔgəbadi fofɛn ɛboz ufəɬ, odadi ɛboz mɛlɪsɔdəɬ.
Whether or not you help us, you're an idiot.

2. If either subject or object or both is noun or proper noun, verb follows its standard rules (Rv is Rv and Ev is Ev).

Ʃfalɛṱ iɬapaɬɪɬ iɬɑnaɬɪɬ fɛn uðu vɛnɪç, zos nunatap' ufoz ɛvəɬ.
Whether the Doctor comes or goes, we must trust him.

3. Connectives are placed after the verb.
a. "Or not" between the verb and its subject.
b. "Or" after the second verb.

[See above]



"Everybody knows that everybody dies." -River Song
 
LicoricePleaseDate: Sunday, 03 Mar 2013, 7:09 AM | Message # 3
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I can't read the "capital" IPA letters. (Partly because the "capital" versions are actually different sounds in IPA.) 

I don't like the idea of proper nouns in general being separate from common nouns, but I love the idea of complicated verb conjugation. Maybe uðu nouns take regular structure?

What do you mean by connectives?


 
StrangerComeKnockingDate: Sunday, 03 Mar 2013, 12:47 PM | Message # 4
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Quote (LicoricePlease)
I can't read the "capital" IPA letters. (Partly because the "capital" versions are actually different sounds in IPA.) 

Well, NYAH! :p

Ʃ -> ʃ

Quote (LicoricePlease)
I don't like the idea of proper nouns in general being separate from common nouns, but I love the idea of complicated verb conjugation. Maybe uðu nouns take regular structure?

Eh?



"Everybody knows that everybody dies." -River Song
 
LicoricePleaseDate: Sunday, 03 Mar 2013, 4:35 PM | Message # 5
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Quote (StrangerComeKnocking)
Ʃ -> ʃ
That's what I was hoping. 

Quote (StrangerComeKnocking)
Eh?
I don't think we should separate all proper nouns from common nouns grammatically, but I do like grammar based on noun class - as we've done before. Is it possible that maybe we should separate uðu nouns from uθ nouns with this particular grammar rule?


 
StrangerComeKnockingDate: Sunday, 03 Mar 2013, 4:38 PM | Message # 6
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Quote (LicoricePlease)
I don't think we should separate all proper nouns from common nouns grammatically, but I do like grammar based on noun class - as we've done before. Is it possible that maybe we should separate uðu nouns from uθ nouns with this particular grammar rule?

2. If either subject or object or both is noun or proper noun, verb follows its standard rules (Rv is Rv and Ev is Ev).

^ That one?



"Everybody knows that everybody dies." -River Song
 
LicoricePleaseDate: Sunday, 03 Mar 2013, 4:53 PM | Message # 7
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Yeah that one.

Wow it was late this morning when I read that. Sorry.


 
StrangerComeKnockingDate: Sunday, 03 Mar 2013, 5:02 PM | Message # 8
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And so now...what are our rules?

1. Connectives are placed after the verb.
a. "Or not" between the verb and its subject.
b. "Or" after the second verb.



"Everybody knows that everybody dies." -River Song
 
LicoricePleaseDate: Sunday, 03 Mar 2013, 5:10 PM | Message # 9
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It might be easier to have the same rule for "or" and "or not". I still don't know what you mean by connective.

 
StrangerComeKnockingDate: Sunday, 03 Mar 2013, 5:30 PM | Message # 10
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Quote (LicoricePlease)
It might be easier to have the same rule for "or" and "or not".

Mm...I don't know since "or not" generally uses only one verb and "or" has two...

Quote (LicoricePlease)
I still don't know what you mean by connective.

Or/or not. Can you tell I'm not a linguist? :p



"Everybody knows that everybody dies." -River Song
 
LicoricePleaseDate: Sunday, 03 Mar 2013, 11:35 PM | Message # 11
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Quote (StrangerComeKnocking)
Mm...I don't know since "or not" generally uses only one verb and "or" has two...
It feels weird to place a conjunction after the verb when neither of them is an infinitive and we would usually place the same conjunction between two items. (Conjunction is the word you've been replacing with connective.)


 
StrangerComeKnockingDate: Monday, 04 Mar 2013, 8:47 AM | Message # 12
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Quote (LicoricePlease)
(Conjunction is the word you've been replacing with connective.)

So I gathered, but they are the same, yes? It doesn't take a grand leap of logic to figure it out anyway.



"Everybody knows that everybody dies." -River Song
 
LicoricePleaseDate: Monday, 04 Mar 2013, 5:55 PM | Message # 13
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It doesn't take trouble to figure it out, no. It'll just take time to get used to. :)

 
StrangerComeKnockingDate: Tuesday, 05 Mar 2013, 4:44 PM | Message # 14
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OKAY SO. Official rules then? Given our discussion, what do we want them to be so I can update GME?


"Everybody knows that everybody dies." -River Song
 
LicoricePleaseDate: Tuesday, 05 Mar 2013, 9:51 PM | Message # 15
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They can be just as you have them. :)

 
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